In the new displayed collection of Polaroid photographs, A Vehement Flame, by Lauren Massie and Lily Burgess, opening this Wednesday night in New York City, eroticism meets intimacy, but most of all, vulnerability.
The collection is strange and unique and dangerous and feels like a risk in a photographic ecosystem that is in a period of safety. Lily and Lauren’s photos don’t depict stylized versions of themselves, their experiences, or their feelings; there are no studios, no lighting rigs, no tricks or trends. There is a photo of Lily crying because something made her cry. There is blur and division, gradient and obscurity. Through these captured moments - not just of joy or heartbreak but of violence and sex and struggle and impurity - they risk all of themselves, and that is something to be admired. This collection of photos is very strong ad striking, so I will keep this brief.
I spoke to Lily and Lauren (the latter happens to be a Bright Young Things alum) at a diner on Houston in Manhattan’s Lower East side as they prepare for their opening reception, Wednesday, July 10th, at Palo Gallery, 21 East 3rd street, NY, NY 10003, from 6-8PM.
What is the central idea or theme behind the show? Because it spans a long time, right?
Lily: We just started taking photos of each other when we started dating, and we amassed so many throughout all different periods of our relationship - good and bad - it became a good document.
Lauren: It’s kind of corny but I feel like it’s a way to go back and be able to reflect on that time, to process things.
Lily: Especially the photos that we’re showing, a lot of them are from when it was not a good time for us, and it’s cool to look at them and be like, ‘oh, we are actually doing alright now.’
Would you say that struggle is a big component of the work you’re showing?
Lily: Definitely, yeah.
In what way do you suppose that component shows up in the photos?
Lily: Some of them, you can sense loneliness from them, or grief. There’s one photo of me crying right after I broke off our engagement; it’s pretty blurry and black and white, and you can see the distress in my face. There’s also like, we used to have crazy sex where we would cut each other and stuff, and that’s definitely not hidden in the work. It’s pretty blatant.
Lauren: I think that the photos are pretty honest, and you can’t sweep them under the rug. They have to be dealt with, if that makes sense.
You’re really exposing yourselves.
Lily: Neither of us are good at hiding anything, so it’s kind of who we are.
How did you go about curating this selection?
Lily: It was tough, we have like two hundred photos. I think we had ideas of which ones were the most powerful and really had the narrative that we wanted to show.
Lauren: The narrative that was accurate to the real life events. That’s how I feel like we curated, was by taking the ones that most accurately reflect what actually happened, and probably the most extreme ones. They’re the most powerful, I think.
Lily: It was very hard picking fourteen.
Was that a hard number for you? Where’d it come from?
Lily: I mean, it was more about space. We are blowing these Polaroids up to framed 16x20, and that’s what we could fit. We wanted thirteen because that’s [Lauren’s] lucky number, but we wanted one more.
Lauren: If we put all two hundred up on the wall…I think that it would have been overwhelming. I have like, no attention span, so if there are a hundred photos on the wall, I will see none of them.
Lily: It’s more palatable, easier to take in.
Lauren: Yeah and any less than what we have, I think we would have been selling ourselves short. It was a good number to tell a story with but not get lost in.
What would you like an audience member to know before they go in to see these images? Is there any instruction?
Lily: Not really, I like to be surprised. I did have to warn my family, because there is nudity and sex stuff, but I want everyone to kind of go in blind and read the artist's statement.
Lauren: I do think it needs a bit of context.
All of the images are shot on Polaroid, instant film, and there is a very handmade element to this, especially on the flyer. Can you talk a bit about that?
Lily: That’s what my work has always been. This project is my first time shooting Polaroid, and we became addicted to it because it’s instant gratification. Lauren shoots on other kinds of film but I don’t have the patience for it. I’ve always sort of liked collages, and a lot of my work is like that. I usually like showing two photos side by side. It’s not that one image isn’t strong enough, for me it’s just about context. I think it makes it stronger.
Are there a lot of pieces that have to go next to or be accompanied by something else?
Lauren: Yeah, for sure.
Lily: There’s one set where three photos go together, a couple of pairs; there are some standalone ones but a lot of matching up.
Lauren: About that tactile element you were talking about, I sit on Lightroom at work all day, and actually fucking with the photos and doing things with my hands, I find it way more enjoyable.
Lily: It’s more personal, too, I think.
Why’d you choose such a personal thing to explore?
Lauren: I think that both Lily and I sort of live in extremes, and like she said, I can’t hide how I’m feeling - I can’t hide if I’m pissed off or happy or sad - so why not just put it out there?
I mean, vulnerability is scary.
Lauren: Yeah, but I’ve been in New York for years now, I’ve spent endless nights doing blow until six in the morning with everyone just trauma dumping on each other, why not do this too? This seems more productive.
Still, taking a photo of yourself crying let alone putting it on display is quite a bold move, I think, especially in a time where we are encouraged to put our absolute best selves forward via social media or whatever.
Lily: At least for me, I’m kind of an open book to a fault. I’m not a very reserved person.
Lauren: I’ve been a bit nervous about it. We’re kind of putting it all out there.
Lily: He’s afraid people are going to think he’s abusing me.
Lauren: I mean, yeah, that’s true.
Lily: But anyone who knows me knows that I ask for it. It’s the general public who we are worried about.
Lauren: There is a bit of ‘fuck it’ to it though. I mean, my cock is printed at 16x20-
And I can’t wait to buy it.
Lauren: Thanks, man. I’d much rather put it out as much as possible than be pseudo-vulnerable. Like half way do it. Every therapist I’ve ever had has told me that my biggest problem is thinking in black and white, so it doesn’t make sense to not be totally honest about things.
A world of extremes. This collection feels very un-contemporary in that it is stylish, but not stylized - it isn’t a depiction of feelings, it is the feeling existing and caught on film. It’s crazy to me that you were in the midst of these experiences and thought, ‘get the camera’.
Lily: It’s why I’ve always liked photography. My writing is super vague and hidden under layers, and photos felt like a cheat code to not hide behind words or metaphors; I just had an easier time being blunt with it.
Lauren: There’d be times where we’d be in some kind of emotional situation and we’d take a picture of it, and it did get to a point where it was like, ‘get the fucking camera out, get it over with,’ but it is cool now getting something productive out of something negative. Lily and I were just talking about how disinterested we are in the super stylized photography we are seeing around now.
Lily: It is very sort of clinical.
Lauren: Stale-
Lily: Sanitized.
Lauren: I was really into it when I first moved to New York, but it’s become too much. I think that for the first few years that I was taking photos, they were very dishonest, and I knew it, and I hated it. Honesty is something that I strive for. That is one of my biggest goals in my photography.
What would you like an audience to leave with?
Lily: That’s a hard question.
I know, everyone struggles with it.
Lily: I can’t say I think about reception, which might be a bad thing.
Lauren: I think about it way too much.
And that’s why we’re friends.
Lily: Maybe just encouraged to be vulnerable? It took a while to not be scared of showing things. I guess I just want the same for everyone else.
Lauren: A lot of people live in avoidance, and like to pretend that they’re not fucked up and that people aren’t fucked up. It’s the honesty thing again. Back home in Alaska, when I was a kid, there was a lot of sweeping shit under the rug and pretending that everything is all good and normal, and it just keeps you fucked up, and I guess I’d like for people to see this and be encouraged to not feel like they need to be that way.
See ‘A Vehement Flame’ at Palo Gallery in New York City from July 10th until August 10th.