In their first solo exhibition at the Palo Gallery, young artists Lily Burgess and Lauren Massie engage in a conversation about their work. “A Vehement Flame” showcases fourteen Polaroids by Lily and Lauren, capturing their passionate, volatile, ugly, and tender relationship.
Blake: Your images depict bruising and cutting, drowning and choking… quite the gamut of sexual desires. Are you destructive lovers or performative photographers? Are the photo sessions staged, spontaneous, or both?
Lily: Almost all of them are spontaneous.
Lauren: Yeah, we never went into any of them saying, “Oh, let’s do this to get a picture of it.” It was always that we were doing these things –
Lily: we just had a camera next to us.
Lauren: The camera was always there as a natural extension.
Lily: Like in that one photo, Choke, we were just choking each other. That was just us in the middle of having sex. The camera was always on the bedside table!
We wouldn’t pause! It was all very spur-of-the-moment depictions of what was actually happening.
Lauren: Yeah, nothing was staged.
Blake: At the Palo Gallery’s reception, you both watched countless voyeurs look at your naked bodies. Can you describe that experience?
Lily: I don't know, I mean we’re obvious people and we can’t hide anything from anyone. So, I was okay with being vulnerable.
Lauren: I found it very liberating to put it all out there.
Lily: And, it was nice to hear that people related to and understood it—so we don’t feel as crazy.
Blake: How did people relate to your exhibition and images?
Lily: Well, people said it was nice to see depictions of things people dont want to talk about in relationships. Because, you know it can be fucked up.
I dont know, I think the most romantic thing is acknowledging all the terrible things.
Lauren: Yeah, I think it’s the only way.
Lily: You can’t hide from it.
Lauren: It doesn’t go away. And the best way for us to acknowledge it all was to print it at sixteen by twenty and let the world see. It felt cleansing.
Lily: A big release.
Blake: If you had to select one image from the exhibition, which image would you choose to define your relationship?
Lily pointed to two images, Leaving and God.
Lily: Leaving was taken the day we broke up and that’s me crying.
Lauren: I had proposed to her and then twenty-five hours later she broke up with me.
Blake: So Leaving is a portrait of Lily crying after she broke up with you because you proposed to her?
Lily: Yeah, we keep each other on our toes!
Blake: Why does Leaving represent your relationship?
Lily: Well it is a very vulnerable moment and it shows the highest level of emotion I think between all of these other images. The other images are all volatile and vulnerable, but with the context of this photo, it means a lot.
Lauren: And also, I think that was one of the most extreme examples of the camera just being a natural extension of everything we already did.
Blake: And why pair Leaving with God?
Lily: Well, that one was taken after Leaving and we were still broken up. I dont know; I think it is a good representation of loneliness--
Lauren: Isolation.
Lily: We were actually talking with the gallery, we had just shown them these photos, and we were trying to find a good image to wrap up the show—a conclusion. We were at our friend's place in Bed Stuy, a crazy mansion, and they just let us roam around there--
Lauren: Prance around Naked.
Lily: And we were still broken up at that point—still sleeping together though.
Lauren: We could never stay away from each other that long, we tried.
--
Blake: Is there a difference between how Lily, you see yourself compared to how Lauren captures you?
Lily: I think that [Lauren] captures me in the most honest and truthful depiction of myself. That’s why, he is the only one I want to photograph me for the rest of my life! Because we’re together, we’re very comfortable in the photos and there’s no boundaries or anything.
Blake: And as for you, Lauren?
Lauren: I feel the same way. I hate having my photo taken--
Lily: Same!
Blake: That’s hard to believe sitting here surrounded by photos of you both!
Lily: Ha! And photos with [Lauren’s] dick out!
Lauren: I just trust Lily completely. And I don’t know, I think Lily sees me a lot differently than how I see myself. Because with the self-critiquing, I’ll do it with everything that I do and with every part of me. I do mental gymnastics to figure out a way where I’m a piece of shit. But, Lily sees me honestly and photographs me as I actually am.
Blake: The namesake of the show comes from the Song of Solomon and multiple images are titled with Biblical references, why are you mapping religion onto your exhibition?
Lily: It’s just always been a part of my life.
Lauren: Likewise. It’s always there, and so ingrained in the both of us. For me, at least, there’s a lot of guilt and shame that comes with being taught all of that stuff from a very young age and having it put so deeply into my head. It’s always there. I think a lot of the exhibition is confronting that shame. The shame of being heathens.
Lily: Yea, I’ve never really thought about this question. Religion is just naturally there. My grandmother was a priest, so yeah! And Lauren’s from Alaska!
Lauren: Until the age of twenty, I prayed every single day throughout the day, when I woke up and went to bed. And then like every douche-bag twenty-one year old I claimed to be an atheist because I wanted to be a rebel. But, I don’t know, I’m slowly coming back to—not the religion I grew up with—but something. I wouldn’t call myself a non-believer.
Blake: Do you think think this exhibition portrays you as heathens?
Lily: I don’t think so. We were afraid that there was going to be a -- well not afraid, but expected some sort of reaction. But, the reception has been-- people empathize a lot with it and understand it. [Lauren] thought people were going to think we were insane.
Lauren: I mean people who already knew us know we are, so I wasn’t necessarily worried about that. I was definitely worried going into it that people were going to think I was abusing my girlfriend. But, I think it’s a lot more complex than that—which is exactly what someone who is abusing their girlfriend would say.
Blake: What do you hope the viewer takes away from the exhibition?
Lauren: Well, where I grew up in Alaska, there was lots of addiction and everyone beat their fucking kids, and nobody talked about it. And everybody, like, cheated on their wives and nobody talked about it. So you have this super fucked up stuff happening, but you’re not allowed to talk about it, confront it, or make it real by saying it out loud. It keeps people fucked up and repressed. Since leaving Alaska, I have tried very hard to get out of that way of thinking and living. To not repress myself. To confront the ugly things.
Lily: The act of doing this show was very therapeutic. I think I was more focused on what the show was doing for me and for us than the reception of it.
Lily: We’re very selfish!
Blake: Are you happy with how the show has been received?
Lauren: Yeah, but ultimately the both of us take pictures for ourselves and not for anyone else.
Lily: I would have been happy if, you know, nothing sold and everyone hated it. Because this show was for us. But thankfully we don’t have to worry about that!
Blake: You have known each other for a year and a half, what is next?
Lily: Well we’re continuing this series until we die.
Lauren: And, we’ve been talking about moving to the swamp!
Lily: Move out of the city and see what that does for the photos.
Lauren: I think both of us need a change in scenery.